Talk:New Super Mario Bros. Wii/GA2

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Reviewer: AdrianGamer (talk · contribs) 07:47, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

  • feature simultaneous multiplayer gameplay - Is there multiplayer games that don't offer simultaneous play?  Done TeraTIX 08:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
Hoo, a lot of stuff here! Very well, I will look through all of it and see if I can get it done by next week.
But anyways, in regards to this suggestion... previous Super Mario games only had an alternating play system where players would switch off and take turns playing through levels. NSMB Wii was the first in the series to have co-op multiplayer with 4 people playing at once, so this is what I mean when I say "simultaneous multiplayer." ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
If this is the case, the word "simulataneous" may be needed.
  • up to four people can play simultaneously in cooperative and competitive multiplayer modes. - mentioning "simultaneously" once again is a bit redundant.  Done TeraTIX 08:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Announced and released following a drop in profits, Nintendo released the game hoping it would rejuvenate sales of the Wii. - the writing is a bit clumsy here.
Changed sentence, hopefully this is a bit better.
  • Development information in the lead was surprisingly light
Fixed. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 14:53, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • were disappointed in the game's lack of new content compared to previous Super Mario titles - "disappointed" by sounds better.  Done TeraTIX 08:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • New Super Mario Bros. Wii features gameplay similar to previous side-scrolling entries in the Super Mario series - This doesn't really tell me anything about how the game plays out. The best gameplay section should be written in a way so that I don't need to read other articles to fully understand it.
I highly disagree with this assessment. At least in my personal view, there is nothing wrong with a gameplay section comparing a game to its predecessors as long as it a. is relevant, b. is properly sourced, and c. is followed by a thorough explanation of what the game itself really is like. NSMB Wii is a game heavily rooted in the mechanics of its predecessors, and thus I would say that it's definitely a relevant subject here. The claim is also backed up by reliable sources that state the game's similarities, and the rest of the paragraph does a job of actually explaining the gameplay- meaning that a person reading would not exactly have to read any other articles in order to get the full gist of the gameplay.
If you still don't agree, then very well- I am still relatively inexperienced, and thus perhaps maybe I really am wrong here. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
I simply think that this is unnecessary. This is like "Like Call of Duty 13, in Call of Duty 14, you shoot soldiers with different guns." It does not add much to the article because normal readers don't know the overall game play of the Super Mario Bros. series. The gameplay section should be standalone so that I don't need to rely on other pages to understand it. You can highlight the differences between entries in a series (e.g. the introduction of simulataneous multiplayer) because it gives more context, but mentioning similarities does not really serve the purpose. AdrianGamer (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
Understandable. Ok, I've removed the instance. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 14:58, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Controls are similar to those of previous side-scrolling Super Mario games - The same problem here. Just remove this sentence completely.
Done (regardless of what I just said, I agree that this particular sentence is sloppy). ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Certain levels are set underwater, where the player must swim to traverse the level. - source for this claim?
Added manual citation. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 14:58, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Several power-ups return from previous Super Mario installments; - Once again this is unnecessary.
Removed. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 14:58, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • take an extra hit before dying - I think "absorb more damage" or something less jargony are better than "take an extra hit before dying".  Done TeraTIX 08:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • as well as giving them more fluid control on ice and in water. - a bit vague, not sure what you mean by "more fluid control".
Changed to "tighter". That any better? ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 14:53, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Yoshi appears prominently in the game in certain levels and is able to eat, swallow and spit enemies and objects, and flutter for a period of time similarly to Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island - Please don't refer to other articles. Is Yoshi playable, or you ride on Yoshi? "In the game in certain levels" is a bit clumsy.
  • with a secret ninth world also accessible by locating all collectibles in each stage - what are the collectibles? Any examples?
By collectibles I meant Star Coins. The problem is that these particular items aren't mentioned and established until later on in the same paragraph, meaning that by referring to them the article would be talking about an aspect that hasn't been explained at all yet. Perhaps maybe the paragraph could be reworked so that this detail is mentioned succeeding the Star Coin bit, but for now I've written it like this.
When you mentioned the Star Coins for the first time, you can mention they are the game's collectibles. AdrianGamer (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
Sounds like a logical idea. Ok, done. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • with multiple choosable paths sometimes available after completing a stage. - don't understand what this mean.
On the map screen, there is sometimes more than one path that can be chosen at certain points- I guess the obvious wording to use would be branching paths. But I've changed it to simply say "multiple paths", hopefully that's a bit more understandable. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • initiate a "mini-boss" fight when encountered that, when won, will award the player with items. - the writing here needs refinement. It is a bit clumsy.
Fixed. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Most levels contain a midway flag, which, if reached and passed through, the player will return to after dying and returning to the leve - Just say it acts as a save point.
  • Although New Super Mario Bros. Wii is a 2D game, many of the characters and objects are 3D polygonal renderings on 2D backgrounds, resulting in a 2.5D effect similar to the graphics in New Super Mario Bros. - same problem. Comprison with other titles is not needed.  Done TeraTIX 08:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • have a limited amount of time before they automatically enter a bubble - They have a limited amount of time to do something, but what is that?
To grab in pursuit, that is. I've fixed the sentence and made it more clear. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:07, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • In vertically scrolling courses, being left below the screen results in losing a life. - source for this?
Nope, unfortunately not. It's a fairly unessential detail as well, so I've just removed it. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:19, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Players return to the map screen if they all die before anybody respawns in the stage. If all players run out of lives and get a game over, they must use a "Continue" and restart over from their last save point with five lives left - I can't help but feel that this is a little bit too detailed. "They must use a "Continue"" sounds strange as well.
Fixed. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:19, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Super guide doesn't need its own section. Just merge it with the main gameplay section.
Done. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • by pressing the A button while a more skilled player traverses a difficult segment - do not mention the button you need to press per WP:GAMEGUIDE.  Done TeraTIX 08:57, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • a concept created by Mario Shigeru Miyamoto - move this to the development section.
Removed, I believe that the development section already mentions this if I'm not mistaken so no need to do any moving. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings - What is a Koopaling actually?  Done (wikilinked) TeraTIX 08:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • New Super Mario Bros. Wii was created out of a desire to recreate the Super Mario series' single-player gameplay experience for multiple players - sort of unnecessary since the next sentence is talking about the exact same thing.
  • With the faster CPU - Wikilink CPU  Done TeraTIX 08:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • "special processing and programming [would be required] to handle how her skirt is handled within the gameplay." - I don't see the need of quoting this. Paraphrasing would be better.
Done. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • hadn't been hard enough in retrospect - don't use contractions.
This is the biggest mistake I always make- I have a habit of writing with contractions and always forget to avoid doing so in WP. Nonetheless, fixed. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • The ability for a player to put themselves into a bubble and opt out of doing a level was devised so that both novice players and more experienced ones could play without interfering with each other. - This should be moved to the second paragraph, the one talking about difficulty.
Done. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • As an extra incentive for pros - a bit informal.
"Advanced players"...? Is that good??
Much better
  • new Super Mario game and sequel to New Super Mario Bros. tentatively called New Super Mario Bros. Wii - Just say it is a sequel to New Super Mario Bros. is good enough. This is needlessly complicated.
Done. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • The latter game was officially announced at E3 2009[49][50][51] and Gamescom - It was announced at both venues? This doesn't sound possible.
  • Shigeru Miyamoto expressed his faith that the game would express strong sales stretching beyond its first year on the market. - Two "express" in the same sentence. Better replace one of them.
Changed to "retain" if that isn't too awkward. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • On September 6th, 2013, Nintendo announced that the game's price would be reduced to $29.99, along with that of Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Wii Sports Resort - Price reduction is sort of unnecessary. Games' prices change a lot.
Very well, removed this detail. Will see if I can find any Nintendo Selects info to replace it at some point, as the paragraph is left a tad short without this. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • On December 5th, 2017, a high-definition remastered port of the game was released exclusively in China for the Nvidia Shield TV. - Is there more information about this? A one-sentence paragraph should be avoided.
Found a second source and added an additional sentence. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:19, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • At E3 2011, a variation of New Super Mario Bros. Wii, dubbed New Super Mario Bros. Mii, was showcased as a playable demo for Nintendo's then new console, the Wii U, which allows players to play as their Miis. It was a prototype designed to showcase the technology - Release section's information should be arranged in a chronological order, so this is a little odd.
Moved to before.
  • asserting it was something he would have to deal with for the rest of his life - This was a bit vague. What did he mean?
Replaced with "the crime's repercussions" if that's any better. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Pre-release was a bit too long. Post-release reception is typically more important and the proportion here seems to be a bit out of place. I think this section should be slightly trimmed.
  • CNET's Dan Ackerman, whilst praising New Super Mario Bros. Wii's overall enjoyability, noted its strong similarity to its side-scrolling predecessors, musing that it felt "firmly planted in the 2D era." - One-sentence paragraph should be avoided.
Combined with the above paragraph- hopefully in a not-too-sloppy fashion. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • GameRankings shouldn't be used per review template guideline
Can't say that I ever even knew this. Nonetheless, it is now done. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • You don't need to write the score issued by each reviewer in prose. The review template is here to serve this purpose.
  • Gaming blog Kotaku highly praised the game, calling it a reason to buy a Wii - but why did he think this is a must-play?
  • You mention the authors/name of the actual reviewer in the pre-release section but not in the post-release section, which is quite inconsistent.
  • MOS:ITALIC is very inconsistent between the pre-release and post-release reception section as well.
  • The reception section does not feel organized. It feels like all information is being clumped into two paragraphs.
WP:RECEPTION might be useful here. TeraTIX 01:55, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
Or this one: WP:VG/REC. AdrianGamer (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • New Super Mario Bros. Wii sold three million units in Japan in the shortest time ever, selling 3,002,753 units within seven weeks of its release - you have mentioned that it sold over three million units, and then you mention the exact number. "Shortest time ever", but compared to what? Simply "New Super Mario Bros. Wii sold 3,002,753 units within seven weeks of its release in Japan" is good enough.  Done TeraTIX 08:55, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Source 17, 41, 43, 68 are bare urls.
Fixed all of these, I believe. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 18:07, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Source 31, and 115 do not seem reliable.
Not sure what you are talking about here. You may be right about source 31, but 115 is a primary source containing direct sales data from Nintendo's official Japanese website, so it's literally as objectively reliable as an Internet source could possibly be.
GamingUnion is not reliable as a secondary source. You can cite NikkeiNet directly as a primary source.
Oh, wait a minute, it appears that I somehow looked at the wrong source- 117, to be specific, rather than 115. I can't say I'm entirely sure how that happened, but oh well... Replaced with a PCWorld article, and also integrated the link provided below because why the hell not.
Reference number is based on this version. The position of the references may have changed as you are editing the page, adding or removing stuff. AdrianGamer (talk) 17:43, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
  • It sold 10 million copies in the US alone
  • The way you cite citations is very inconsistent as well. For instance, source 103 used GamesRadar in |work= while source 81 used All of these need to be fixed. You have wikilinked IGN but not others, which I don't understand.
These seem to be due to a combination of simple mistakes on my part and other sources that were added by different people with different styles of citing that were added over 5 years ago. Nonetheless, I have gone through and fixed as much as I could, though I'm not sure if I missed anything throughout. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 18:07, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Source 26, being the only reference for the fourth paragraph of the gameplay section, mentions nothing about infinite lives, midway flags or anything else that was mentioned in the paragraph.
Fixed. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 14:47, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Source 14 does not mention anything about infinite lives, or powerups being encased in floating blocks.
Fixed. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 14:47, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Source 23 does not mention anything about players being able to play a short minigame and earn extra lives or items by visiting the Toad Houses.
Fixed- I believe that the source did have a bit about item houses, but I found a source for life houses and put it in as well to support all information.
  • Source 9 does not support things like "If a player dies, they re-emerge in the level encased in a bubble. They can resume play when another player breaks the bubble. A player can break the bubble by touching it, or by hitting it with a fireball, ice ball or Koopa shell".
GA Criteria per WP:WIAGA
1 Well written
1a the prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct
1b it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation
2 Verifiable with no original research
2a it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline
2b all in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines
2c it contains no original research
2d it contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism
3 Broad in its coverage
3a it addresses the main aspects of the topic
3b it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style)
4 Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each
5 Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute
6 Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio
6a media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content
6b media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions
Cmt There are minor issues with writing, MOS and consistency, but original research and unsoruced content are the ones that need immediate concern. The reception section needs some further work. AdrianGamer (talk) 13:51, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the many comments regarding this article. Like I said, I will see how much of this I can get through by the end of next week. This might have been a bit of a rushed nomination on my end, regrettably, but clearly it can still be done so I suppose we'll see what happens. Cheers! ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:16, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Feel free to take your time. I won't close the review as long as editors are working on it. AdrianGamer (talk) 07:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
@TheDisneyGamer: - Can I get a progress update? AdrianGamer (talk) 13:41, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
@AdrianGamer: Certainly. I haven't worked too much on the page lately in light of a vacation off in New York, but I think I've gotten through most of your suggestions. I believe that the only one which I haven't done is the very last one about source 9 (if I'm not mistaken). Otherwise, I've gone through and dug out several new sources to support information as well as expanding the reception section a little. I'm leaving in 5 days to go to Summer camp, so I won't be able to edit for a little while when that rolls around, but in the meantime please let me know if you have any other suggestions. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 14:47, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
@AdrianGamer: Are you still around??? I am leaving for Summer camp tomorrow so I won't be able to edit until August 13th, but do you suppose you could maybe run a 2nd review while I'm gone (if needed, of course)?? I'll check here ASAP when I get back. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 01:12, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
I am still around. I simply haven't done much recently. I can do a second read to see whether there are problems with organization and quoting. You still need to fix the source 9 problem though. AdrianGamer (talk) 14:00, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

2nd review

  • increase in size and allows him to absorb more damage before dying - "before dying" is unnecessary
Fixed. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 20:10, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Although New Super Mario Bros. Wii is a 2D game, many of the characters and objects are 3D polygonal renderings on 2D backgrounds, resulting in a 2.5D effect. - Avoid one-sentence paragraph. Integrate it to somewhere else.
Moved to first paragraph. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 20:10, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
  • create a balance of difficulty - it is an odd way of representing it. Try rephrasing it.
Tried my hardest to fix this, though it was a bit tricky. Good enough?? ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 20:10, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
  • There are also a bunch of one-sentence paragraphs that need to be fixed in the release section.
Most of these are actually two-sentence paragraphs, but I understand nonetheless that they're a tad short. I did very minute expanding and merged some of the paragraphs. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 20:10, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
  • I think pre-release reception section shouldn't be this long. Or remove "NGamer_UK". While the article is published by a reliable source, the author doesn't sound so reliable.
Opted for your 2nd suggestion and simply removed NGamer as well as a sister statement from Engadget. Is this good enough?? ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 20:10, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
  • they criticized the game's lack of any online multiplayer features, highlighting it as a particular point of dissatisfaction - change "they" to "he", as only the IGN review is used.
Fixed. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 20:10, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
  • You have done a good job expanding the reception section. I am impressed.
Thank you. I tried to expand it enough so that the post-release section would be better balanced alongside the pre-release section. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 20:10, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

When all the issues are fixed, alongside with the source 9 problem mentioned, it should have no problem passing. AdrianGamer (talk) 11:14, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the further suggestions! I have just returned from camp and will get on here ASAP. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 15:45, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
@AdrianGamer: I believe I have taken care of all of the remaining issues listed above- including the source 9 problem (which appears to now be source number 11 if I'm correct in my assessment). Let me know if there's anything which needs further refinement or improvement. ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 20:36, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I am happy with your changes. New Super Mario Bros. Wii is now a GA. Congratulations! AdrianGamer (talk) 10:42, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
Oh hey, I didn't even notice that you'd finished the nomination, hah. Sorry for a late response, but nonetheless thanks very much for your help!! ~~Tristan ("TheDisneyGamer") 17:45, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
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